--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@...> wrote:
Dear Bhooshan Priya ji,
Thanks for the clarifications. It was much helpful
Love and regards,
Sreenadh
--- In lalkitab_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Pandit Bhooshan Priya" <pt_bhooshanpriya@...> wrote:
Dear Sreenadh ji,
I congratulate you for a very succinct, brief and a fair review which you have done with utmost academic honesty.
There are two points which I thought need elaboration lest they are misconstrued by those who are not familiar with the Lal Kitab paddhati.
[1] Half blind horoscope:
The word half blind is an inappropriate translation for `Rataandhra' one who can not see at night. `Rataandhra kundali' is loosely translated as half blind horoscope.
When the sun is placed in the 4th house and the Saturn in the 10th house , such a kundali has been termed as a `rataandhra' kundali.
Now how does a Saturn placed in the 7th house effect a Sun placed in the 4th house? Saturn in the 7th house is considered as exalted {LK concept}. In Vedic astrology the Saturn in the 7th becomes digbali {directional strength}. Saturn becomes all the
more powerful at night because of kaal bal [ time strength].
Now such a strong Saturn from the 7th has its 10th aspect on the Sun in the 4th {vedic astrology aspect}.
Thus an aspect of the Saturn on the 4th house [domestic peace & comforts] will have adverse effects on the significations of the 4th house. The aspect of the Saturn on the Sun [soul], its enemy, will destroy the significations of the Sun. The same aspect of the
Saturn on the 4th house, a house of the moon [peace of the mind], will weaken the moon. Sun placed in the 4th has an aspect on the 10th house; this aspect could also adversely affect the profession.
Summarizing: this combination would adversely affect the significations of the 4th house, of the sun, of the moon, and even of the 10th house to some extant.
Now why the term andharata or rataandhra or getting blind at night has been used for such an horoscope?
Saturn is the karak of vision, sight, nazar. Sun and the Moon are the karak of the eye balls. The Sun represents light, the moon the light at night. The 4th house is the
mid-night [adhrasht ardha of the horoscope]. When the Saturn over shadows these two it would adversely affect the vision, nazar. Here the words vision and nazar are symbolic; it means perception, ability to think clearly etc. In this way, not only the peace and comfort of the home will be jeopardized, even the perception could be warped. A person with a half blind horoscope will not be able to take a right decision especially during the night.
The result of this combination:
A person with this combination should not start any new project or venture at night. He should not make plans for any new project at night. Such projects might run into
difficulties and may not be successful.
Therefore a senior executive of a firm, with a half blind horoscope, should never have business meetings at the dinner time. Such an executive should always avoid
any decision taking at night.
[2] Blind horoscope or `andha teva'
If there are more than two mutually enemy planets in the 10th house, the horoscope is known as " andhe grahon ka teva".
It is not the definition, which is important; it is the logic and the purpose behind it that is to be understood. We all know that the 10th house is a very significant
house of the horoscope, dealing with karm {profession} ,yash { fame }, and success
In the Cardinal Kundli {kalpurush kundali} the 10th house belongs to Capricorn and Saturn is the lord of this house. Saturn is associated with sight. When mutually enemy
planets are placed in this house, it is assumed that Saturn will blind them. But why not blind a lone planet, why more than two mutually enemy planets? The logic is
that the mutually enemy planets would have been inherently weakened by their infighting and hence susceptible to blinding; like a person already weakened by illness can be floored by a mere push.
As a blind person doesn't know where he is going similarly blind planets wouldn't have a sense of bearings or direction. They wouldn't know where they are leading the native to. Such blind planets in the 10th house could make a person lose his bearings in profession and success.
With that being the situation, there cannot be any stability in either profession or business �" meaning jatak's karm-kshetra. There will be an imbalance in all matters designated by the 10th house, be it profession, fame or achievements.
Since the 10th house has far reaching consequences on human life that is why this combination has significance. Secondly it is only the 10th house where the Saturn has the capability of affecting the planets, which have been made weak due to infighting. That
explains the concept of blind horoscope is confined to the 10th house only and no other house of the horoscope.
God bless you
Pt. Bhooshan Priya
--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@...> wrote:
Dear All,
To review a system first one should know the system. In this mail, I will try to introduce you to some of the important rules and concepts present in LK.
1) The prime concept to know is that � in lalkitab system houses and signs are counted from lagna. i.e. Lagna is treated as Aries, 2nd house as Taurus, 3rd house as Gemini and so on, where ever the lagna be. This has got several side effects as follows -
i. Lagna would always be treated as the exaltation sign of Su, 2nd house as that of Moon, 7th as the exaltation house of Saturn, 4th house of Jupiter, 6th house of Mercury and so on. In short exaltation-debilitation etc are all relative to houses and not signs. (Signs are only less important in LK). This introduces some corollaries -
ii. Since Lagna means Aries (where ever the lagna be), Lagna is the exaltation sign of Sun, own house of Mars, debilitation house of Saturn etc.
iii. As evident from the above example the `Kalapurusha chart' concept similar to AIA is accepted, but as indicated earlier the head of the kalapurusha (and native) starts with the lagna with its feet in the 12th house.
2) Planetary Aspect (Drishti) � Planetary aspect is the same as in AIA. But there is a clause. `Aspect will be felt only if aspected house is occupied by another planet'. For example if Sun is placed in 10th house from Saturn then it can be said that Sun is aspected by Saturn. But if 10th house is vacant, then it cannot be said that Saturn is aspecting 10th house.
3) Some say that, as per Lalkitab planets change significance when they change house. For example Moon in 4th indicate mother, in 6th indicate maternal grand mother, in 8th indicate elder aunt, in 10th younger aunt etc. But may be instead of assuming that planet is changing significance as they change house, we can explain it better if we assume that the house signify such relatives and the results are getting visible through the planets situated there.
4) The concept of Dridha and Adhridha results is present in lalkitab system as well. As accepted in AIA Dridha results cannot be modified or changed with remedies but Adridha results can. But there is something special in deciding which are dridha and which are adridha results. Let me explain it a bit. As per LK every house is assigned one or more planets which indicate `planet of sign results' (rasiphal ka grah) and `planet of planet results' (grahaphal ka grah). It is said that `Planet of planet results' indicate dridha results and `planet of sign results' indicate adridha results. The remedies are said to work only for adridha results, i.e. results indicated by `planet of sign results'. Or in other words � "those planets which are considered as of `grah phal' are of dridha results and no upaya can be done for those planets. Those planets which are considered of `rasi phal' in a house are of adhridha results and an upaya can be done for them". (The list of `planet of sign results' and `planet of planet results' related to every house would be given later)
5) Friends and Enemy Planets: The concept and table is almost similar to AIA. But even if natural enemy, planets in the same house are treated as friends. It is similar to the `temporary friendship' concept of AIA.
6) Beneficial and Maleficial planets: LK does not consider any planet as inherently benefic or malefic. It says that every planet is capable of giving benefic or malefic results. (We should accept that this approach is logically correct and excellent) But this is introduces a new difficulty and complexity, and thus one of the most difficult areas in LK to master. Because there are numerous such rules are there which determine whether a planet is benefic or malefic in the given chart. "Such rules are too many. For each planet there are different rules, depending on which house the planet is and which other planets influence it. These rules are both for benefic and malefic results of that planet." So what makes a planet benefic or malefic as per LK? The answer would be � "The planetary placement and interrelationships of the planets. And most importantly, the jatak's way of life, habits, moral, attitude towards religion, relationships with other family members etc. e.g if some one insults his father, teacher or a purohit his jupiter will act as malefic even if it may be placed in the 4th house [exalted] and so on." (Yes, certainly this is an area to which we should come back and discuss in detail later)
7) LK has its own Dasa system which is somewhat similar to the Yogini dasa system.
8) LK has its own Year result (Varshaphal; based on transit/progression) system. (This point we will discuss in detail later)
9) Graha karakatva: Similar to AIA, Lalkitab system also assign and associate significance (karakatva) with all planets. But there are some minor differences.
10) Bhava karakatva: Similar to AIA, Lalkitab system also assign and associate significance (karakatva) with all houses. But there are some minor differences.
11) Instead of the word `Bhava karak' (significator of house), LK uses the word `Pakka khar' (permanent house of planet). LK also introduces the new concept of associating one or more `planet of luck' (kismet jaganewala grah), `planet of sign results' (rasiphal ka grah), `planet of planet results' (grahaphal ka grah) with every house.
12) Now there is a list of unique concepts such as � blind charts, half blind charts, virtuous planets (and charts), companion planets, competitive planets, established planet, warring planets of foundation, and dormant planet (and house). Let me explain all of these briefly
i. Blind planet: when one or more unfriendly planets are placed in the 10th house, it is called a horoscope of blind planets (Example: Sun in 10th)
ii. Half blind: A chart with Sun in 4th house and Saturn in 7th house is called a half blind chart.
iii. Virtuous planet: Any planet giving good results, even it be a malefic planet. (Eg: Ketu in 4th, any planet with Moon, Saturn in 11th etc). A chart with virtuous planet can be said as virtuous chart. It is somewhat similar to the Subha jataka or Suddha Jataka concept of AIA.
iv. Companion planets: Planets which exchange house � mutual exchange. Such planets are treated as friends.
v. Competitive planets: If one of two friendly planets is conjoined by an enemy planet, then it will spoil the friendship of the friendly planets and make them competitive, almost equal to enmity. (Eg. Venus in 7th and Mercury in 6th are friendly. If Sun get placed in 7th and thus spoils Venus then this friendship will become competition, and so Me and Ve would be considered competitive planets in the above scenario)
vi. Established planet: A planet devoid of any time of malefic effect. For example a planet placed in its own sign unaspected by any other planet can is an established planet. Will give good results.
vii. Warring planets: Planets which are placed in 6-8 axis from each other. The planet in 6th put its ill effects on the planets in 8th from it (and not vice versa).
viii. The planets of foundation (mutually helping planets): Planets which are in 1-5-9 axis to each other.
ix. Dormant planets and house: If a planet does not aspect any other planet then it is called a dormant planet, and if a house is unaspected by any other planet (to receive the aspect as per LK a planet should be present in that house) then that house is called a dormant house.
Based on the analysis of the above factors we can say that Lalkitab system is nothing but an expert shortcut system to AIA. How and Why? That I will explain in the next mail considering each and every of the above concepts in detail.
Love and regads,
Sreenadh
--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@...> wrote:
Dear All,
To review any system first one should understand that system. A woman takes 10 months to deliver a baby. So to learn and review this system I should spend at least 10 day - because I am starting from a blank slate; i.e. I knew almost nothing about this system.
It might be bit surprising, but it is usually easy to approach a system and learn more in less time, if you are NOT a student of that system. A student progresses linearly through the path guided by the teacher, but the seeker/searcher/researcher takes jumps! Rather than trying to understand the system sequentially, he tries to find answers to the doubts that arise in him as and when he encounters new concepts; he is more guided by his inner quest and logic in the path he takes - than by the book and tradition. My state when I tried to approach this system was also the same. Some questions I got, some answers too; some gaps I found, many merits too. Some doubts got cleared some still hang in mid air.
Lalkitab systems (here after LK) is different from most of the other off shoots of Oriental astrology due to many reasons. Some of the readily visible factors about this system to the public are that -
* Unlike the Sanskrit based other astro systems, Lalkitab is written in Urudu.
* LK gives much importance to Remedies some of which at times seems illogical. It strongly argues that you can cure the ill effects caused by planets by doing x and y things.
* An aura of mystery is present around lalkitab not only because of its name which means "Red Book", but also because of numerous other factors such as �
--- it is in Urudu which most of the hindi speakers are not much familiar with (the first hindi version of LK appeared only in 1952).
--- printed versions of this text was not available (hand written copies and photocopies of this book was getting circulated)
--- there was not one but many versions of the book getting circulated with the name lalkitab. (Pt. Rup chand Joshi published 5 books on lalkitab such as in 1939, 1940, 1941,1942 and finally in 1952; and in 1952 the hindi version of lalkitab came out with the name "Aruna samhita"; and numerous others wrote lalkitab related books with the very name 'lalkitab' itself. No wonder it caused much confusion)
--- it does not follow the systematic approach found in other traditional astrological books but instead presents things as if some revelation
--- in none of the lalkitab versions the author was not mentioned (The 1939 version of the book mentioned the printer cum publishers name as "Giridhari lal Sharma" which many took as the name of the author then. Later only it came to light that Pt. Rup chandi Joshi is the real author of the book)
--- Unlike other astro-systems it spoke a unique terminology and language and mentioned a remedy for almost everything.
--- Even thought the text is in Urudu, LK mentions and speaks about the Hindu godes and not about gods of other cultures.
No wonder that people felt it bit mysterious.
Stories began to circulate about Lalkitab such as �
-- it is Arabic astrology [since it is in Urudu]
-- it is a book written by Aruna the coach driver of God Sun [based on the name given to 1952 hindi version of lal kitab as "Aruna samhita" which was nothing but an effort to do literal transilation of the word 'lal kitab' in to Sanskrit, where Aruna means 'lal' (red) and Samhita was used to refer to 'kitab' (book)] The story improved to say that, Ravana took away the book to Lanka, the book then reached Arebia and was translated into Arabic and Persian languages. And then into Urudu and thus came into existence 'lalkitab' alias 'aruna samhita' that is known to as today.
Everything has a limit and every mystery should end once. The same was the case with such mysteries and stories as well. In modern times, in the seventies and after more and more people started learning LK system and good book about the same started to come out. Possibly one of the best among them is the book "Lal Kitab Astrology - Background and Exposition" by Pd. Krishan Ashant. But please note that the good authors on LK system is not limited to Krishan Ashant alone but many others too are there.
The researches by such scholars brought out many facts such as �
* Books on LK system were written by Pt. Rup Chand Joshi of Pharwala, Panjab.
* The story behind is that - a soldier from Himachal Pradesh (his name is unknown) working in Army as per the request of his officer presented his astro knowledge into some hand written books. The officer gave the copies to Pt.Rup Cahnd Joshi for review and study. Later when Pt.Rup Chand Joshi went to his native village in Pharwala he took the books along with, studied it, and later started publishing books on the same. He mentioned neither his name nor the name of the Javan who actually contributed this knowledge to him through that handwritten book anywhere. Surprisingly those notes also never got published and none really knows whether such notes existed or existing or not. However scholars like Krishan Ashant presents some witness accounts stating that some of the friends of Pt.Rup Cahnd Joshi actually saw those hand written notes. (Anyway it is not clear what amount of info comes from those notes and what amount from Pt.Rup Chand Joshi himself - and possibly that would never be get revealed as well, since Pt. Rup Chand is no more and none seems have traced any clue in this direction till date.)
* It got clarified that LK is a unique and versatile system, an off shoot of Oriental astrology, as practiced in the hilly places of Himachal pradesh, Utteranchal and some parts of Kashmir. (Anyway apart from this argument, not much info or proofs are available in this direction. No existing practitioner of the system, who follows this system without depending on the books of Pt. Rup Cahnd Joshi ever showed up.)
* The logic behind the remedies, the results to be told, the systematic approach to leaning all started coming into light.
And thus gradually improved the reputation of the lalkitab system, and more and more people started practicing it. It is advisable to the traditional indian astrologers who are trying to understand this system as well to first keep aside the confusing jungle of remedies and try to understand the conceptual core. Otherwise you would confused about the primarily petty looking jungle of remedies, which used by the local astrologers similar to ready reckoner without knowing the logic behind, making not only themselves but also the system itself a laughing stoke for the some what knowledgeable. The blame should go not to the LK system itself, but to the money minded astrologers who are not interested in learning this system systematically but only in making money.
Anyway, coming back to the history of astrology, thus it becomes clear that nothing much is known about the history of this system before AD. 1939 and it seems that even the mystical history of this system is struck with this year or a few years before which Pt. Rup Chand was in army. Thus the natural first quest that arises is to know at least a guess bit about the history and origin of this system before this period. Let us start from the basic info about the system. The following points should be noted �
* LK does not speaks anything about which Ayanamsa to use. Astrologers use what they prefer. Now a days most of them are using Lahari Ayanamsa.
* LK does clarify much about the dasa system to use, even though it propose a 35 year dasa cycle, similar to the 36 year cycle of Yogini dasa followed in Himachal Pradesh region. None knows correctly how to use this dasa system and LK does not say much about it. Some use it similar to Nasargika dasa (e.g. Pt.Krishan Ashant), and some use it similar to the Yogini or Vimsottari dass system based on the position of Moon in Nakshatra (e.g. Pt. Bhooshan Priya). There are many other methods too which many suggest, but the truth remains that none is even sure where (in which planet) to start the dasa sequence. (Thus it remains a controversial and un-clarified subject)
* LK proposes a Varsha phala table - but none is sure about the logic behind it or even whether it is based on solar return, lunar return or what ever.
* LK gives more importance to Houses than to signs, but it is not clear which house division system to use (equal or unequal; lagna at the beginning of the house or middle of the house etc). Similar to traditional indian astrology most of LK astrologers consider signs itself as houses, but even with my limited experiments this does not seem to work. Scholars like Pt. Bhooshan Priya considers lagna as the mid point of house and I think this is more logical and close to reality regarding the use of this system. LK is totally silent on this matter. The point is if not a proper house reckoning system is selected, giving too much importance to house does not make sense; and if sign as houses rule is accepted then in many cases the results told by traditional astrology would be in direct conflict with the results told by LK system. Considering all these Pt.Bhooshan Priya ji seems to be in right direction even though there are almost none who follows that style. Pt. Krishan Ashant too does not address this point in his book.
* The Planetary sequence followed by LK is unique. Unlike other sytems, in almost in every situation the sequence it refers to is : Ju-Su-Mo-Ve-Ma-Me-Sa-Ra-Ke
Does any of the above points give us any clue regarding the origin and history of this system? Even if they don't, I think they can. I would like to present two major points -
1) If proper house division is essential for the results told by Lalkitab to become correct, then it means that this system came into existence AFTER the period of Sripati (1019-1066) of 11th century AD, who proposed a house system possibly for the first time in India where sign is not equal to the house. (In traditional Indian Astrology before the period of Sripati, Sign = House, without exception).
2) The Planetary sequence followed by an astrological system is usually a good pointer towards its place of origin. For example �
| Sl | Planetary Sequence | Place of origin |
| 1 | Su-Mo-Ju-Ve-Me-Sa-Ma | Uruk, Babylonia, Parthian, Selucid |
| 2 | Mo-Su-Ju-Ve-Sa-Me-Ma | Chaldean (Neo-babylonian) |
| 3 | Su-Mo-Ma-Me-Ju-Ve-Sa | Indian |
| 4 | Su-Mo-Sa-Ju-Ma-Ve-Me | Greek |
And now we are stuck with this new sequence proposed by LK. That is �
Ju-Su-Mo-Ve-Ma-Me-Sa-Ra-Ke
Unlike the above seqences which starts with Sun or Moon the LK sequence starts with Jupiter! Is that a mistake? If we, re-arrange and put Ju at the end then too the sequence stand out as unique, not only because it includes Rahu and Ketu as well but also because the sequence does not have much of a similarity with none of the above sequences! Thus it seems that LK system has an identity of its own, and possibly an astronomical and astrological tradition of its own which can be traced possibly to the ancient kingdoms in the hilly regions of himalaya itself or may be (it is just a wild guess) to some countries and cultures that existed just beyond himalaya like the Kamboja kingdom or so. As of now I am unable to prove anything about its place or origin based on the planetary sequence followed by LK, but definitely it could be a worthy clue if clubbed with further evidences.
I am still trying to learn and understand this system. In the coming days I will share more of my thoughts about this system so that we can proceed to a comparison and conclusion regarding its compatibility with AIA.
Enough for the day.
Love and regards,
Sreenadh
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