Astrostudents-Group Discussions: [astrostudents] Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?

Respected sir,
Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge of the subject once again, it has/will help lot of students like me.However if i may can i please request you to elaborate the monthly chart system (according to your easier calculation) with the help of an example as i am a very slow learner.

Sincerely
Jitin Syal

--- In astrostudents@yahoogroups.com, "Finn Wandahl" <finn.wandahl@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Jitin,
>
> Quote: > if someone with venus in 4th house approached you, you would
> advice him to re-marry his wife(after changing her name), then how can
> you predict that he would have 2 wives? if on one hand an astrologer
> hopes that his remedy would work, how can he predict the opposite(he can
> only fear and advice). <
>
> Actually, I am very fond of this particular Upaya. When I was in India
> back in 1990 some astrologer friends told me about a young man who
> consulted an old astrologer to get advice about his future marriage.
> However, the old astrologer found indications of widowhood in his chart
> and as a remedy he told the young man first to marry a Peepal tree, and
> then only after the Peepal tree had died he should marry the young girl
> in question.
>
> In arrangement with his family the young man soon married the Peepal
> tree and after the tree had died he married to girl, and the story tells
> they lived happily ever after. There were rumours that his would-be
> in-laws had put copper nails into the root of the Peepal tree to speed
> up the process, but I have no idea if this was actually true or not.
>
> I see no contradiction neither in the example given by you nor in the
> story about the Peepal tree. In both cases an attempt has been made to
> alter the future reality a little in order to avoid widowhood or the
> sadness of a separation, and still keep the major picture in the
> predicting of two marriages in mind. I think, sometimes this can be
> done, sometimes not, depending upon the karmas and situation of the
> planets in the charts of the couple.
>
> There is a philosophical explanation to all this. As it is, we are
> already changing destiny by looking into the horoscope in the first
> place. Actually, knowledge of things to come may sometimes change the
> final outcome.
>
> The old Hindu astrologers believed there are two kinds of Karmas: 1)
> Sthira Karma, which is indicated by the Janma Kundali itself, the
> results of which is almost completely fixed and pre-destinated. 2)
> Utpala Karma, indicated by Gochara (transits), the Varshphal kundali or
> by the Prashna Kundali, the results of which is ever changing and not
> fixed.
>
> In case of difference between the two kind of Karma, the Utpala Karma
> were said to prevail, if prayers, remedies etc. were performed.
>
> For many years I always used both the Janma Kundali and the Prashna
> Kundali, side by side, in order to get the punya right by observing both
> these kinds of Karma at the same time.
>
> As Lal Kitab astrologers, you can say we use both Janma Kundali (Sthira
> karma) and Varshphal kundalis (Utpala karma) side by side for somewhat
> similar reasons.
>
> Best wishes,
> Finn
>
>
> --- In astrostudents@yahoogroups.com, "jitinsyal82" <jitinsyal82@>
> wrote:
> >
> > respected finn sir,
> > my knowledge is no where as near as you or anyone else in this group
> for that matter, however i do feel that in lal kitab sometimes
> recommending remedies and predicting can contradict each other.
> >
> > please correct me if i am wrong but,for example if someone with venus
> in 4th house approached you, you would advice him to re-marry his
> wife(after changing her name), then how can you predict that he would
> have 2 wives? if on one hand an astrologer hopes that his remedy would
> work, how can he predict the opposite(he can only fear and advice).
> > please share your experience on above.
> > thank you
> > sincerely
> > Jitin Syal
> >
> > --- In astrostudents@yahoogroups.com, "Finn Wandahl" finn.wandahl@
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Members,
> > >
> > > The discussion going on at the moment is very interesting to follow.
> The
> > > importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always
> very
> > > good, since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I
> have
> > > been able to notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out
> > > Upayas to people without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi. This means
> > > these ignorant astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is
> > > correctly calculated or not.
> > >
> > > As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this
> have
> > > been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great
> > > astronomer/astrologer Varaha Mihira wrote that a miscalculation of
> an
> > > astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin. Actually, I
> think
> > > this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately
> using
> > > wrong chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would
> never
> > > have given such a strong statement.
> > >
> > > My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an
> > > Ascendant-based kind of astrology without verifying whether or not
> the
> > > Ascendant is correct is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this
> goes
> > > on every day and it surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the
> > > charlatans belong to this category of astrologers. Anyway, there is
> not
> > > so much we can do about this problem, except to do our very best
> when
> > > we, who are supposed to be the good guys, do the horoscopes
> ourselves.
> > > But are we really doing our best, or are some of us perhaps getting
> a
> > > little lazy? This is actually a very important question. Since -
> after
> > > all - no astrologer, however big or famous, is any better than the
> last
> > > horoscope he did.
> > >
> > > There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have
> > > often among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some
> few
> > > western astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab
> > > astrologer, he will ask you a number of highly relevant questions
> about
> > > your life, which clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and
> he
> > > would even pin-point at certain events going on in certain years of
> the
> > > past. He may even say thing about the present situations, being
> > > precisely correct. But when it comes to the future, he either can or
> > > will not give any predictions at all, but rather gives a large
> number of
> > > Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad elements in the near
> future,
> > > normally without even telling what malefic event the remedy is
> supposed
> > > to guard against.
> > >
> > > No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab
> > > consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the
> > > Varshphal we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that
> > > year. This is in my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological
> > > advice. And we have a lot of relevant information like that to share
> > > with our clients. But given the knowledge about the past and present
> > > that we present to the client, isn't it only natural that he/she
> also
> > > expect something like that to be said about the future? And not only
> > > Upayas, however relevant they may be.
> > >
> > > I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal
> > > Kitab astrologers. If I am right then we need to ask ourselves some
> > > questions: Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no
> > > longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop
> > > Chand Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the
> > > future? (Except of course that predictions should be given with due
> > > caution and all the necessary ethical consideration, etc. etc.). Are
> we
> > > somehow forgetting what it means to be astrologers? Are we
> developing
> > > into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Finn Wandahl
> > >
> >
>