Astrostudents-Group Discussions: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?

Respected Goel ji, we are really honoured to have a guide as ur
goodself who knew pt ji since 1950. But still i have reservations
regarding ur approach. Kindly refer to mercury in ekadash bhav and
navam bhav as referred in Bhattanarayanakrat : chamatkar chintamani.
And compare it with what lalkitab says about mercury in khana no. 11
and 9. U will get ur answer. Since u talk of medical every time. Let
me remind u that a person wrongly diagonosed of malaria is given
regular dose of quinine to counter it will eventually and actually
become a patient of malaria. Regards. Kulbir.

On 6/7/09, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> I have FULL respect to Pt. Roopchand ji and Lalkitab.
> I first met him in 1950.He was a siddha purush.
> Even more I enjoy the discussions on Lalkitab on this site.
> I will always be grateful for guidance being given by experts on Lalkitab.
> Before giving any prediction I always consult Lal Kitab.
> These books contain dictum which were formulated even before
> Parasara narrated BPHS TO MATRYEE .
> Parasara clearly says in ch 3 of BPHA THAT the effects of placement of
> planets a) in bhava
> b )in Nakshatras may be studied thoroughly in Shastras already available. I
> will narrate the combined
> effects of planets in signs and bhavas.
> Now if a planet is disposed off to give some results , it will certainly
> give those results but modified to the rules
> of a dasa system being employed as well as effect of transits on these
> planets.
> Lal kitab does not say that results specified their in will be not respond
> to other methods.
> My dear friend , they do respond to other systems of dasas.Lalkitab do
> specify its own
> powerful methodology, but do not prohibit to use and access the effects on
> other scales.
>
> Even Vaids do advise their patients to consult other systems also and vice
> vars.Their is no harm doing so.
> We should not be over possessive.
> Regards,
> G.K.GOEL
> Ph: 09350311433
> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
> NEW DELHI-110 076
> INDIA
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jitinsyal82 <jitinsyal82@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: astrostudents@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, 7 June, 2009 2:28:28 PM
> Subject: [astrostudents] Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Respected Goel sir,
> Let me tell you that i am not against vedic at all.and i agree with you on
> the below, that scientfic research and medical science has helped us a lot
> but i have never seen medical science beleiving in alternative treatments or
> vice versa.My point was mixing 2 different methods to calculate/predict
> something is odd.
>
> If you think that's right,then so be it coz there are countless astrologers
> out there who use gochar to predict and lal kitab for remedies.
>
> I just think Pt. ji has given us enough so we don't have to rely on other
> sources.
>
> Respectfuly
> Jitin SYAL
>
> --- In astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ ...> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Sayal ji,
>> There was no dearth of excellent Hakims and vaids in
>> India ,still the population in India was static on the level
>> of 200 million over 1000 years toll 1920.This had happened
>> in spite of fact that there were no family planning measures.
>> Mother were dying in child birth in large scale and there was
>> child mortality on large scale.Average age in India was only
>> 26 years till 1950
>> When people tried to invent new methods , now average age 62 years in
>> India and
>> population had grown from 200 million to 1200 million since 1920 census.
>> Sages and saints had shown us the way , but we should collectively move
>> forward.
>> If we shall stuck , our ancestors will be very very unhappy.
>> If you do not , some way, like my mail ,I beg your pardon in advance.
>> Regards,
>> G.K.GOEL
>> Ph: 09350311433
>> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
>> NEW DELHI-110 076
>> INDIA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________ _________ _________ __
>> From: jitinsyal82 <jitinsyal82@ ...>
>> To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com
>> Sent: Saturday, 6 June, 2009 7:08:31 AM
>> Subject: [astrostudents] Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Respected Goel ji,
>> With all due respect, i have never seen a good and kabil hakeem/vaidh
>> asking for x-rays/blood test in order to diagnose the problem, as they
>> rely on checking pulse and asking questions in order to conclude
>> something. similarly i have never seen a true LK follower talking about
>> vimsottari dasha, untill now.
>>
>> It's quite interesting, but you have the experience on your side so please
>> keep sharing your insights.
>> sorry, if i said anything to hurt anyone's feelings but i am just trying
>> to learn through your experiences.
>>
>> Yours sincerely
>> Jitin Syal
>>
>> --- In astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ ...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear Kulbir ji,
>> > I study the chart and indications of planets in various houses
>> > as per rules of Lalkitab.
>> > These results come true in the dasas of planets as per
>> > Vimsottari system.
>> > As an example , a native is having Saturn in 4H.ACCORDING TO LALKITAB IF
>> > SUCH NATIVE
>> > LAYS THE FOUNDATION OF A HOUSE BEFORE THE AGE OF 35 YEARS HE WILL LOOSE
>> > THE
>> > FINANCIAL STATUS.
>> > THE NATIVE PURCHASED A FLAT AND PERFORMED THE HOUSE WARMING CEREMONY,
>> > NEXT DAY
>> > HE LOST JOB.THERE WERE NO PRIOR INDICATIONS. AT THAT TIME SATURN
>> > SUB-PERIOD WAS OPERATING.
>> > I COME ACROSS SUCH SITUATIONS FREQUENTLY.
>> > REGARDS,
>> > G.K.GOEL
>> > Ph: 09350311433
>> > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
>> > NEW DELHI-110 076
>> > INDIA
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________ _________ _________ __
>> > From: kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ ...>
>> > To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com
>> > Sent: Thursday, 4 June, 2009 2:23:52 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Respected Prabhakar Ji, i think Illm Qyafa needs proper
>> > definition/explanat ion and how to apply it properly if not perfectly.
>> > It shall be very kind of you if ur goodself could shed some light
>> > regarding this.. I think it is some sort of combination in respect of
>> > keen observation and its application with relation to intution. But
>> > not clear. Kindly guide. With regards. Kulbir.
>> >
>> > On 6/3/09, Ashok singh <y2k_aksingh@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > Dear Gurujan and friends,
>> > >
>> > > I am a new learner of lal kitab. For timing of event I guess to some
>> > > extend
>> > > we can find from lal kitab. here is the rule and please comment on it
>> > > if I
>> > > am wrong or if it can be improved.
>> > >
>> > > 1. Consider 35 Saal Desha, Average planet life and Planet Active
>> > > during 1
>> > > year of period.
>> > >
>> > > A- Consider Avg. Life of a planets..
>> > > a) Planets in house no 2 starts from Life period minus avg period..i.e
>> > > Ju 59
>> > > to 75
>> > > b) Planets in House no 9 starts from the Avg life of planets i.e Ju
>> > > starts
>> > > from 16 to 32 or Su
>> > > from 22 to 44 etc.
>> > > c) In all other houses it starts from starting from birth i.e. Ju from
>> > > birth
>> > > to 16 years.
>> > > d) Consider all the other condition i.e Su with Ra Avg life of Su is
>> > > zero or
>> > > Moon with Ke is 11 years.
>> > >
>> > > B. 35 Years Dasha
>> > > a) 35 Years Dasha should be consider and created.
>> > >
>> > > C. For every year Annual planet activte period should be consider.
>> > > i.e Ju 32 days, Su 22 days etc
>> > >
>> > > After creating all the tables the real game starts:
>> > >
>> > > i.e Ju in House No. 1 and Sun,Moon or Mars in House No. 1,2,4
>> > > Result: Earning from royal court will be extremely high.
>> > > Analysis:
>> > > Now we will see what time periods this four planets are active
>> > > simultaneously
>> > > this way we can find not only the time of event but also the life time
>> > > of
>> > > event.
>> > > (How long this result will stay)
>> > >
>> > > If you read the examples given in lal kitab it is also described
>> > > there.
>> > >
>> > > If I am not clear please feel free to ask me or I am open to any
>> > > question.
>> > >
>> > > WAITING FOR YOUR COMMENTS
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > > Ashok
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
>> > > To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups.. com
>> > > Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 5:47 AM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Respected Goel ji, can u share a little bit as to how u make pin point
>> > > predictions for future events using lalkitab. I mean event, time of
>> > > occurence. Rider is that the principle applied should be applicable to
>> > > all or similar cases. It shouldn't be applicable to a single or Very
>> > > Few cases. Plz take it in positive attitude. Looking forward to learn
>> > > something from your goodself. Regards. Kulbir.
>> > >
>> > > On 6/2/09, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ yahoo. co.in> wrote:
>> > >> Dear Gautam ji,
>> > >> It looks you happen to meet a person who may not be knowing
>> > >> abc of Lalkitab..
>> > >> Regards,
>> > >> G.K.GOEL
>> > >> Ph: 09350311433
>> > >> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
>> > >> NEW DELHI-110 076
>> > >> INDIA
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> ____________ _________ _________ __
>> > >> From: Gautam.Rampal <gautam.rampal@ gmail.com>
>> > >> To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com
>> > >> Sent: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009 2:10:34 PM
>> > >> Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> I usually practice KP system of astrology, I have been able to make
>> > >> many
>> > >> successful predictions
>> > >> both on horary and natal chart.
>> > >>
>> > >> This year in delhi a Nakshatra exhibition was held, out of curiousity
>> > >> i
>> > >> went
>> > >> to a stall which
>> > >> was dedicated to lal kitab books, the author was present there.
>> > >>
>> > >> I too bought couple of books, i asked him how to make predictions
>> > >> using
>> > >> lal
>> > >> kitab he said that
>> > >> predictions cannot be made from lal kitab, its main use is to
>> > >> neutralise
>> > >> the
>> > >> bad planetary effects.
>> > >>
>> > >> Gautam.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@
>> > >> gmail.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Sir, to check and verify the nature of planets corresponding to past
>> > >> events and present/prevailing conditions like vaastu, physique, palm,
>> > >> status of and with different relatives and to suggest remedies to the
>> > >> native to enhance positive planatary influence and minimise negative
>> > >> influence to take benefit of doubt is one thing. To predict future is
>> > >> totally different aspect. Lalkitab places a certain degree of command
>> > >> in native's hands which he may use either way. So how is it possible
>> > >> to predict future with certainity. Also e.g. In case of Combined
>> > >> destiny of father-son. Or like in some cases like the one discussed
>> > >> in
>> > >> the last part of 1952 edition the birth of the son brought a windfall
>> > >> gains in the father's life. How can u predict when the son is still
>> > >> not born. Another e.g. is the case of copper mixed gold bangles which
>> > >> were cut and resulted in misfortune.. Lalkitab in its introduction
>> > >> says
>> > >> that the purpose of the book is to nullify hinderances in results
>> > >> promised by stars and provide some sort of protective gear against
>> > >> possible calamities.. Only major events can be foretoled that too
>> > >> which
>> > >> are of the capacity to be written with INK OF BLOOD. Lalkitab
>> > >> emphasis
>> > >> that Astrology is the study of planatary TENDENCIES. when tendency is
>> > >> not certain how can the predictions be pin point? Regards. Kulbir.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On 6/2/09, Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl@ mail.dk> wrote:
>> > >>> Dear Members,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The discussion going on at the moment is very interesting to follow.
>> > >>> The
>> > >>> importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always
>> > >>> very
>> > >>> good, since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I
>> > >>> have
>> > >>> been able to notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out
>> > >>> Upayas to people without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi.. This
>> > >>> means
>> > >>> these ignorant astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is
>> > >>> correctly calculated or not.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this
>> > >>> have
>> > >>> been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great
>> > >>> astronomer/astrolog er Varaha Mihira wrote that a miscalculation of
>> > >>> an
>> > >>> astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin. Actually, I
>> > >>> think
>> > >>> this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately
>> > >>> using
>> > >>> wrong chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would
>> > >>> never
>> > >>> have given such a strong statement.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an
>> > >>> Ascendant-based kind of astrology without verifying whether or not
>> > >>> the
>> > >>> Ascendant is correct is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this
>> > >>> goes
>> > >>> on every day and it surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the
>> > >>> charlatans belong to this category of astrologers. Anyway, there is
>> > >>> not
>> > >>> so much we can do about this problem, except to do our very best
>> > >>> when
>> > >>> we, who are supposed to be the good guys, do the horoscopes
>> > >>> ourselves.
>> > >>> But are we really doing our best, or are some of us perhaps getting
>> > >>> a
>> > >>> little lazy? This is actually a very important question. Since -
>> > >>> after
>> > >>> all - no astrologer, however big or famous, is any better than the
>> > >>> last
>> > >>> horoscope he did.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have
>> > >>> often among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some
>> > >>> few
>> > >>> western astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab
>> > >>> astrologer, he will ask you a number of highly relevant questions
>> > >>> about
>> > >>> your life, which clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and
>> > >>> he
>> > >>> would even pin-point at certain events going on in certain years of
>> > >>> the
>> > >>> past. He may even say thing about the present situations, being
>> > >>> precisely correct. But when it comes to the future, he either can or
>> > >>> will not give any predictions at all, but rather gives a large
>> > >>> number of
>> > >>> Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad elements in the near
>> > >>> future,
>> > >>> normally without even telling what malefic event the remedy is
>> > >>> supposed
>> > >>> to guard against.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab
>> > >>> consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the
>> > >>> Varshphal we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that
>> > >>> year. This is in my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological
>> > >>> advice. And we have a lot of relevant information like that to share
>> > >>> with our clients. But given the knowledge about the past and present
>> > >>> that we present to the client, isn't it only natural that he/she
>> > >>> also
>> > >>> expect something like that to be said about the future? And not only
>> > >>> Upayas, however relevant they may be.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal
>> > >>> Kitab astrologers. . If I am right then we need to ask ourselves
>> > >>> some
>> > >>> questions: Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no
>> > >>> longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop
>> > >>> Chand Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the
>> > >>> future? (Except of course that predictions should be given with due
>> > >>> caution and all the necessary ethical consideration, etc. etc.). Are
>> > >>> we
>> > >>> somehow forgetting what it means to be astrologers? Are we
>> > >>> developing
>> > >>> into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Best regards,
>> > >>> Finn Wandahl
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Sent from my mobile device
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
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>> > > --
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
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>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sent from my mobile device
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>> >
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