Astrostudents-Group Discussions: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?

Respected Goel ji, i have read ur articles running into pages where u
explained parashari, jaimani system at length in an another group on
lalkitab. Here u make a one line personal negative statement against
someone (i still don't know his name) and when asked if u have what he
lacks. You make yet another 2 line haughty statement. Of course it is
annoying. With respect. Kulbir.

On 6/3/09, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Dear kULBIR JI,
> It looks I made you angree.This is not my intention.
> My side , this issue is closed.
> Regards,
> G.K.GOEL
> Ph: 09350311433
> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
> NEW DELHI-110 076
> INDIA
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: kulbir bance <kulbirbance@gmail.com>
> To: astrostudents@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009 9:43:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Respected Goel ji, there are 2 points in ur mail. 1. U yourself say
> that u are no lalkitab expert then by what authority do u comment that
> some person (gautam ji did not mention his name) DOES NOT KNOW ABC OF
> LALKITAB. 2ndly u say that u can't teach vide net. But WHO
> APPROACHED/REQUESTE D UR GUDSELF FOR LEARNING CLASSES? U made a
> sweeping and rash statement. Hope u would have read Bhandari ji's mail
> and got the answer clear by now. Regards. Kulbir.
>
> On 6/2/09, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@yahoo. co.in> wrote:
>> I AM not a lalkitab expert , and it is not possible to teach you
>> via net.
>> G.K.GOEL
>> Ph: 09350311433
>> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
>> NEW DELHI-110 076
>> INDIA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________ _________ _________ __
>> From: kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com>
>> To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com
>> Sent: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009 4:17:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Respected Goel ji, can u share a little bit as to how u make pin point
>> predictions for future events using lalkitab. I mean event, time of
>> occurence. Rider is that the principle applied should be applicable to
>> all or similar cases. It shouldn't be applicable to a single or Very
>> Few cases. Plz take it in positive attitude. Looking forward to learn
>> something from your goodself. Regards. Kulbir.
>>
>> On 6/2/09, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ yahoo. co.in> wrote:
>>> Dear Gautam ji,
>>> It looks you happen to meet a person who may not be knowing
>>> abc of Lalkitab.
>>> Regards,
>>> G.K.GOEL
>>> Ph: 09350311433
>>> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
>>> NEW DELHI-110 076
>>> INDIA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________ _________ _________ __
>>> From: Gautam.Rampal <gautam.rampal@ gmail.com>
>>> To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009 2:10:34 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I usually practice KP system of astrology, I have been able to make many
>>> successful predictions
>>> both on horary and natal chart.
>>>
>>> This year in delhi a Nakshatra exhibition was held, out of curiousity i
>>> went
>>> to a stall which
>>> was dedicated to lal kitab books, the author was present there.
>>>
>>> I too bought couple of books, i asked him how to make predictions using
>>> lal
>>> kitab he said that
>>> predictions cannot be made from lal kitab, its main use is to neutralise
>>> the
>>> bad planetary effects.
>>>
>>> Gautam.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sir, to check and verify the nature of planets corresponding to past
>>> events and present/prevailing conditions like vaastu, physique, palm,
>>> status of and with different relatives and to suggest remedies to the
>>> native to enhance positive planatary influence and minimise negative
>>> influence to take benefit of doubt is one thing. To predict future is
>>> totally different aspect. Lalkitab places a certain degree of command
>>> in native's hands which he may use either way. So how is it possible
>>> to predict future with certainity. Also e.g. In case of Combined
>>> destiny of father-son. Or like in some cases like the one discussed in
>>> the last part of 1952 edition the birth of the son brought a windfall
>>> gains in the father's life. How can u predict when the son is still
>>> not born. Another e.g. is the case of copper mixed gold bangles which
>>> were cut and resulted in misfortune.. Lalkitab in its introduction says
>>> that the purpose of the book is to nullify hinderances in results
>>> promised by stars and provide some sort of protective gear against
>>> possible calamities. Only major events can be foretoled that too which
>>> are of the capacity to be written with INK OF BLOOD. Lalkitab emphasis
>>> that Astrology is the study of planatary TENDENCIES. when tendency is
>>> not certain how can the predictions be pin point? Regards. Kulbir.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/2/09, Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl@ mail.dk> wrote:
>>>> Dear Members,
>>>>
>>>> The discussion going on at the moment is very interesting to follow. The
>>>> importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always very
>>>> good, since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I have
>>>> been able to notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out
>>>> Upayas to people without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi.. This means
>>>> these ignorant astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is
>>>> correctly calculated or not.
>>>>
>>>> As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this have
>>>> been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great
>>>> astronomer/astrolog er Varaha Mihira wrote that a miscalculation of an
>>>> astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin. Actually, I think
>>>> this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately using
>>>> wrong chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would never
>>>> have given such a strong statement.
>>>>
>>>> My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an
>>>> Ascendant-based kind of astrology without verifying whether or not the
>>>> Ascendant is correct is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this goes
>>>> on every day and it surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the
>>>> charlatans belong to this category of astrologers. Anyway, there is not
>>>> so much we can do about this problem, except to do our very best when
>>>> we, who are supposed to be the good guys, do the horoscopes ourselves.
>>>> But are we really doing our best, or are some of us perhaps getting a
>>>> little lazy? This is actually a very important question. Since - after
>>>> all - no astrologer, however big or famous, is any better than the last
>>>> horoscope he did.
>>>>
>>>> There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have
>>>> often among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some few
>>>> western astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab
>>>> astrologer, he will ask you a number of highly relevant questions about
>>>> your life, which clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and he
>>>> would even pin-point at certain events going on in certain years of the
>>>> past. He may even say thing about the present situations, being
>>>> precisely correct. But when it comes to the future, he either can or
>>>> will not give any predictions at all, but rather gives a large number of
>>>> Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad elements in the near future,
>>>> normally without even telling what malefic event the remedy is supposed
>>>> to guard against.
>>>>
>>>> No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab
>>>> consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the
>>>> Varshphal we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that
>>>> year. This is in my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological
>>>> advice. And we have a lot of relevant information like that to share
>>>> with our clients. But given the knowledge about the past and present
>>>> that we present to the client, isn't it only natural that he/she also
>>>> expect something like that to be said about the future? And not only
>>>> Upayas, however relevant they may be.
>>>>
>>>> I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal
>>>> Kitab astrologers. . If I am right then we need to ask ourselves some
>>>> questions: Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no
>>>> longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop
>>>> Chand Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the
>>>> future? (Except of course that predictions should be given with due
>>>> caution and all the necessary ethical consideration, etc. etc.). Are we
>>>> somehow forgetting what it means to be astrologers? Are we developing
>>>> into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Finn Wandahl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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