Astrostudents-Group Discussions: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?

Dear Kulbir ji

"Ilm-qayafa" is not any independent term; it is rather a vast collection of various aspect consisting of palmistry, phrenology, vaastu, "desh-kaal-samay", faiths & beliefs and so on. Believe me; this has been in our blood for the ages. Scores of examples can be given in this regard, but I would like to share an interesting tale with you to make myself clear.

Once a foreigner came to India as he heard that predictive astrology is present everywhere. He visited a small village to verify the same. While he was entering the village he saw a small boy came running, he stopped that boy and asked why he was running? The boy replied since it is going to rain very soon, so he wanted to reach his him. The foreigner looked upon the clear skies and told the boy that there will be no rain as there are no rain clouds anywhere in the sky.. After the boy left, he saw a Sheppard coming with his herd in a great hurry. The foreigner asked him why he was running like a mad. The Sheppard replied he wanted to reach his home before the rain starts. The foreigner was again surprised and tried to convince the Sheppard about the clear skies but he did not listened and left hurriedly. Then he saw a poor man running like a mad, the foreigner stopped and asked him the reason, the man replied that it is going to rain pretty soon so he want to go to his place as soon as possible. Finally, he saw a worried farmer who was running towards his home; the foreigner asked him whether he too was expecting rain? Incidentally the farmer replied in affirmative and left the scene.

The foreigner laughed at the nonsense of those ignorant people, and wrote in his note book that it is not the predictive astrology but the stupidly that is present everywhere in India. As he finished his notes, suddenly the drizzling begin, and within no time the dark clouds appeared from nowhere and there was a heavy rain for quite some time. The surprised foreigner decided to meet all those who "predicted" the rain. He first approached the little boy and asked him how he "predicted". The boy answered innocently:

"I saw a lot and lot of dragon flies (called beenDa in Punjabi - remember the famous helicopter insect during the rainy season?) all over, and my grandfather once told me that this is the indication that rain is coming."

He then asked the same question to Sheppard , the Sheppard replied that while he was relaxing in a cave of a mountain he suddenly felt that the walls of the caves were getting moist, and that he knows from his childhood that this is the indication of the rain. He then asked the poor man, the poor man replied that he is an opium addict and before the rain came, he found that his opium was dying turning (turning yellow with moisture). He immediately realized that the rain is on its way. The stunned foreigner finally approached the farmer and asked him about his "logic", the farmer calmly and coolly replied that he saw that the Aloe-vera plants (ghee kunwar) in his fields suddenly raised their head straight towards the sky, and that he was aware from his childhood that this is the clear signal of the heavy rain.

The moral of the story is that whatever those four persons described, the "rationale" behind their "prediction" was nothing but a small part of "Ilm-Qayafa".

God bless you always
Yograj Prabhakar

From: kulbir bance <kulbirbance@gmail.com>
To: astrostudents@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 4 June, 2009 2:23:52 PM
Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?

Respected Prabhakar Ji, i think Illm Qyafa needs proper
definition/explanat ion and how to apply it properly if not perfectly.
It shall be very kind of you if ur goodself could shed some light
regarding this. I think it is some sort of combination in respect of
keen observation and its application with relation to intution. But
not clear. Kindly guide. With regards. Kulbir.

On 6/3/09, Ashok singh <y2k_aksingh@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Gurujan and friends,
>
> I am a new learner of lal kitab. For timing of event I guess to some extend
> we can find from lal kitab. here is the rule and please comment on it if I
> am wrong or if it can be improved.
>
> 1. Consider 35 Saal Desha, Average planet life and Planet Active during 1
> year of period.
>
> A- Consider Avg. Life of a planets.
> a) Planets in house no 2 starts from Life period minus avg period.i.e Ju 59
> to 75
> b) Planets in House no 9 starts from the Avg life of planets i.e Ju starts
> from 16 to 32 or Su
> from 22 to 44 etc.
> c) In all other houses it starts from starting from birth i.e. Ju from birth
> to 16 years.
> d) Consider all the other condition i.e Su with Ra Avg life of Su is zero or
> Moon with Ke is 11 years.
>
> B. 35 Years Dasha
> a) 35 Years Dasha should be consider and created.
>
> C. For every year Annual planet activte period should be consider.
> i.e Ju 32 days, Su 22 days etc
>
> After creating all the tables the real game starts:
>
> i.e Ju in House No. 1 and Sun,Moon or Mars in House No. 1,2,4
> Result: Earning from royal court will be extremely high.
> Analysis:
> Now we will see what time periods this four planets are active
> simultaneously
> this way we can find not only the time of event but also the life time of
> event.
> (How long this result will stay)
>
> If you read the examples given in lal kitab it is also described there.
>
> If I am not clear please feel free to ask me or I am open to any question.
>
> WAITING FOR YOUR COMMENTS
>
> Thanks
> Ashok
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 6/2/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
> To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 5:47 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Respected Goel ji, can u share a little bit as to how u make pin point
> predictions for future events using lalkitab. I mean event, time of
> occurence. Rider is that the principle applied should be applicable to
> all or similar cases. It shouldn't be applicable to a single or Very
> Few cases. Plz take it in positive attitude. Looking forward to learn
> something from your goodself. Regards. Kulbir.
>
> On 6/2/09, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ yahoo. co.in> wrote:
>> Dear Gautam ji,
>> It looks you happen to meet a person who may not be knowing
>> abc of Lalkitab.
>> Regards,
>> G.K.GOEL
>> Ph: 09350311433
>> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
>> NEW DELHI-110 076
>> INDIA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________ _________ _________ __
>> From: Gautam.Rampal <gautam.rampal@ gmail.com>
>> To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com
>> Sent: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009 2:10:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I usually practice KP system of astrology, I have been able to make many
>> successful predictions
>> both on horary and natal chart.
>>
>> This year in delhi a Nakshatra exhibition was held, out of curiousity i
>> went
>> to a stall which
>> was dedicated to lal kitab books, the author was present there.
>>
>> I too bought couple of books, i asked him how to make predictions using
>> lal
>> kitab he said that
>> predictions cannot be made from lal kitab, its main use is to neutralise
>> the
>> bad planetary effects.
>>
>> Gautam.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sir, to check and verify the nature of planets corresponding to past
>> events and present/prevailing conditions like vaastu, physique, palm,
>> status of and with different relatives and to suggest remedies to the
>> native to enhance positive planatary influence and minimise negative
>> influence to take benefit of doubt is one thing. To predict future is
>> totally different aspect. Lalkitab places a certain degree of command
>> in native's hands which he may use either way. So how is it possible
>> to predict future with certainity. Also e.g. In case of Combined
>> destiny of father-son. Or like in some cases like the one discussed in
>> the last part of 1952 edition the birth of the son brought a windfall
>> gains in the father's life. How can u predict when the son is still
>> not born. Another e.g. is the case of copper mixed gold bangles which
>> were cut and resulted in misfortune. Lalkitab in its introduction says
>> that the purpose of the book is to nullify hinderances in results
>> promised by stars and provide some sort of protective gear against
>> possible calamities. Only major events can be foretoled that too which
>> are of the capacity to be written with INK OF BLOOD. Lalkitab emphasis
>> that Astrology is the study of planatary TENDENCIES. when tendency is
>> not certain how can the predictions be pin point? Regards. Kulbir.
>>
>>
>> On 6/2/09, Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl@ mail.dk> wrote:
>>> Dear Members,
>>>
>>> The discussion going on at the moment is very interesting to follow. The
>>> importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always very
>>> good, since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I have
>>> been able to notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out
>>> Upayas to people without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi.. This means
>>> these ignorant astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is
>>> correctly calculated or not.
>>>
>>> As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this have
>>> been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great
>>> astronomer/astrolog er Varaha Mihira wrote that a miscalculation of an
>>> astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin. Actually, I think
>>> this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately using
>>> wrong chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would never
>>> have given such a strong statement.
>>>
>>> My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an
>>> Ascendant-based kind of astrology without verifying whether or not the
>>> Ascendant is correct is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this goes
>>> on every day and it surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the
>>> charlatans belong to this category of astrologers. Anyway, there is not
>>> so much we can do about this problem, except to do our very best when
>>> we, who are supposed to be the good guys, do the horoscopes ourselves.
>>> But are we really doing our best, or are some of us perhaps getting a
>>> little lazy? This is actually a very important question. Since - after
>>> all - no astrologer, however big or famous, is any better than the last
>>> horoscope he did.
>>>
>>> There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have
>>> often among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some few
>>> western astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab
>>> astrologer, he will ask you a number of highly relevant questions about
>>> your life, which clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and he
>>> would even pin-point at certain events going on in certain years of the
>>> past. He may even say thing about the present situations, being
>>> precisely correct. But when it comes to the future, he either can or
>>> will not give any predictions at all, but rather gives a large number of
>>> Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad elements in the near future,
>>> normally without even telling what malefic event the remedy is supposed
>>> to guard against.
>>>
>>> No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab
>>> consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the
>>> Varshphal we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that
>>> year. This is in my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological
>>> advice. And we have a lot of relevant information like that to share
>>> with our clients. But given the knowledge about the past and present
>>> that we present to the client, isn't it only natural that he/she also
>>> expect something like that to be said about the future? And not only
>>> Upayas, however relevant they may be.
>>>
>>> I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal
>>> Kitab astrologers. . If I am right then we need to ask ourselves some
>>> questions: Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no
>>> longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop
>>> Chand Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the
>>> future? (Except of course that predictions should be given with due
>>> caution and all the necessary ethical consideration, etc. etc.). Are we
>>> somehow forgetting what it means to be astrologers? Are we developing
>>> into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Finn Wandahl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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