Astrostudents-Group Discussions: [astrostudents] Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?

Dear Nirmal,

> In my opinion, Astrologer cannot prescribe the remedieal measure untill or unless he knows about the occurance of forthcoming event. <

Very well spoken! Actually this is precisely my point as well. In order to prescribe an Upaya against a future event we need to have at least some idea about the nature of that event.

Further, if no Tewa Darusthi has been made, how can the astrologer be sure this is even the chart of that person. In that case the astrologer cannot possibly know the occurance a/nature of forthcoming events, and any thought of giving remedial measures becomes an absurdity in such a case.

>In my opinion, It is unnecessary for a native to know his fate,unless he has the power to alter it.<

Here I beg to differ. In some cases the client may be running some bad period on his job or in his marriage and wants to know when this bad situation will change. Also sometimes it is relevant for the client to know how long time a good period will last.

The client may also like to know what year would be likely and auspicious to get married, to get a child, to start a new business, to construct a new house, to take a foreign travel, to get promoted, to have unexpected expences, to gain wealth, to repay debts, have a loan in the bank and so many other thing, which is actually clearly described in Lal Kitab.

The client may or may not be able to alter his fate about these everyday things, but shouldn't he at least be given an idea about the general trends regarding such things perhaps in this year and the next year? Surely it is no big deal, and we have so much relevant guidance to offer. Lal Kitab is so completely pregnant with relevant guidance and sound astrological advice which is so very useful for the clients.

Actually, I normally tell my clients to ask question about what they are interested to know about, and guided by these questions a explain and guide them about the trends that I am able to see.

Best wishes,
Finn

--- In astrostudents@yahoogroups.com, Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj <nirbhar@...> wrote:
>
> Respected Finn ,//Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no
> longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop Chand
> Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the future? (Except
> of course that predictions should be given with due caution and all the
> necessary ethical consideration, etc. etc.). Are we somehow forgetting what
> it means to be astrologers? Are we developing into Upayagers rather then
> Astrologers?//
> In my opinion, Astrologer cannot prescribe the remedieal measure untill or
> unless he knows about the occurance of forthcoming event. That means He know
> the probable occurance of an event Bad or Good. Now this is upto the
> astrologer to tell or not , this forthcoming event to Native. Lalkitab
> Forbids doing this to astrologer because this will create an unnecessary
> doubts among the natives in case of wrong interpretition. That is why the
> Lalkitab astrologer shirks of telling future or predictions.
>
> Let us see the other case also. Lalkitab astrologers do the correction of
> Kundli by asking queries about timing of few past incidents. Why Teva
> Durusti is required. Even If you note down the timing of birth up to nano
> seconds the teva durusti is required. That means some forces are there which
> can alter the timing of an event or may force the event not to occur.
> Where the prediction stands?
> Lal kitab iterates that there are two states of planet. Firm or doubtful.
> The firm state of planet cannot be changed by an ordinary astrologer. It can
> be changed by few Godly persons,but even then it will be Tit for tat or we
> can say Exchange of results. Lalkitab says the Doubtful state have all the
> remedial measures. means we can alter the timing of event by performing
> remedial measures.
> Thus the occurance of an event can be altered or ceased.
> When a Child takes Birth he brings with him the Treasures of his previous
> birth given to him by God(Kudrat Ke Bhejey huye Khazaney). Or we can say
> that every person have some sort of Gaibi Madad(God Grace) with him. With
> this grace many a times the remedial measures were got performed by the
> person with this God Grace. In these cases The prediction Falls flat.
> In other case also If a person performs a remedial measure at a correct
> time, the bad event can be altered or ceased. In this case the prediction
> also falls flat.
> A Lalkitab astrologer , Though knows the future,but do not indulge himself
> in future telling system. He, normaly forewarn the native about the bad
> period and prescribe few remedial measure for the coming year or months.
> What will astrologer gain by telling future to the native. Can native alter
> his fate.
> In my opinion, It is unnecessary for a native to know his fate,unless he has
> the power to alter it. I dont think Lalkitab Astrologers forget the guidance
> given to them by Lalkitab.
>
> The word 'UPAYAGERS" is a good invented word and suited for astrologers.
> Regards
> Nirmal
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 2:17 AM, Finn Wandahl finn.wandahl@... wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Dear Members,
> >
> > The discussion going on at the moment is very interesting to follow. The
> > importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always very good,
> > since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I have been able to
> > notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out Upayas to people
> > without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi. This means these ignorant
> > astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is correctly calculated or
> > not.
> >
> > As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this have
> > been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great
> > astronomer/astrologer Varaha Mihira wrote that *a miscalculation of an
> > astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin**. *Actually, I think
> > this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately using wrong
> > chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would never have given
> > such a strong statement.
> >
> > My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an Ascendant-based
> > kind of astrology without verifying whether or not the Ascendant is correct
> > is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this goes on every day and it
> > surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the charlatans belong to this
> > category of astrologers. Anyway, there is not so much we can do about this
> > problem, except to do our very best when we, who are supposed to be the good
> > guys, do the horoscopes ourselves. But are we really doing our best, or
> > are some of us perhaps getting a little lazy? This is actually a very
> > important question. Since - after all - no astrologer, however big or
> > famous, is any better than the last horoscope he did.
> >
> > There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have often
> > among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some few western
> > astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab astrologer, he
> > will ask you a number of highly relevant questions about your life, which
> > clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and he would even pin-point
> > at certain events going on in certain years of the past. He may even say
> > thing about the present situations, being precisely correct. But when it
> > comes to the future, he either can or will not give any predictions at all,
> > but rather gives a large number of Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad
> > elements in the near future, normally without even telling what malefic
> > event the remedy is supposed to guard against.
> >
> > No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab
> > consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the Varshphal
> > we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that year. This is in
> > my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological advice. And we have a lot
> > of relevant information like that to share with our clients. But given the
> > knowledge about the past and present that we present to the client, isn't it
> > only natural that he/she also expect something like that to be said about
> > the future? And not only Upayas, however relevant they may be.
> >
> > I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal Kitab
> > astrologers. If I am right then we need to ask ourselves some questions: Are
> > we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no longer care about
> > giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop Chand Joshi ever say
> > anything against giving predictions about the future? (Except of course that
> > predictions should be given with due caution and all the necessary ethical
> > consideration, etc. etc.). Are we somehow forgetting what it means to be
> > astrologers? Are we developing into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Finn Wandahl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>