Astrostudents-Group Discussions: [astrostudents] Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?

Respected Goel sir,
Let me tell you that i am not against vedic at all.and i agree with you on the below, that scientfic research and medical science has helped us a lot but i have never seen medical science beleiving in alternative treatments or vice versa.My point was mixing 2 different methods to calculate/predict something is odd.

If you think that's right,then so be it coz there are countless astrologers out there who use gochar to predict and lal kitab for remedies.

I just think Pt. ji has given us enough so we don't have to rely on other sources.

Respectfuly
Jitin SYAL

--- In astrostudents@yahoogroups.com, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Sayal ji,
> There was no dearth of excellent Hakims and vaids in
> India ,still the population in India was static on the level
> of 200 million over 1000 years toll 1920.This had happened
> in spite of fact that there were no family planning measures.
> Mother were dying in child birth in large scale and there was
> child mortality on large scale.Average age in India was only
> 26 years till 1950
> When people tried to invent new methods , now average age 62 years in India and
> population had grown from 200 million to 1200 million since 1920 census.
> Sages and saints had shown us the way , but we should collectively move forward.
> If we shall stuck , our ancestors will be very very unhappy.
> If you do not , some way, like my mail ,I beg your pardon in advance.
> Regards,
> G.K.GOEL
> Ph: 09350311433
> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
> NEW DELHI-110 076
> INDIA
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jitinsyal82 <jitinsyal82@...>
> To: astrostudents@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, 6 June, 2009 7:08:31 AM
> Subject: [astrostudents] Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Respected Goel ji,
> With all due respect, i have never seen a good and kabil hakeem/vaidh asking for x-rays/blood test in order to diagnose the problem, as they rely on checking pulse and asking questions in order to conclude something. similarly i have never seen a true LK follower talking about vimsottari dasha, untill now.
>
> It's quite interesting, but you have the experience on your side so please keep sharing your insights.
> sorry, if i said anything to hurt anyone's feelings but i am just trying to learn through your experiences.
>
> Yours sincerely
> Jitin Syal
>
> --- In astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Kulbir ji,
> > I study the chart and indications of planets in various houses
> > as per rules of Lalkitab.
> > These results come true in the dasas of planets as per
> > Vimsottari system.
> > As an example , a native is having Saturn in 4H.ACCORDING TO LALKITAB IF SUCH NATIVE
> > LAYS THE FOUNDATION OF A HOUSE BEFORE THE AGE OF 35 YEARS HE WILL LOOSE THE
> > FINANCIAL STATUS.
> > THE NATIVE PURCHASED A FLAT AND PERFORMED THE HOUSE WARMING CEREMONY, NEXT DAY
> > HE LOST JOB.THERE WERE NO PRIOR INDICATIONS. AT THAT TIME SATURN SUB-PERIOD WAS OPERATING.
> > I COME ACROSS SUCH SITUATIONS FREQUENTLY.
> > REGARDS,
> > G.K.GOEL
> > Ph: 09350311433
> > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
> > NEW DELHI-110 076
> > INDIA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ ...>
> > To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Thursday, 4 June, 2009 2:23:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Respected Prabhakar Ji, i think Illm Qyafa needs proper
> > definition/explanat ion and how to apply it properly if not perfectly.
> > It shall be very kind of you if ur goodself could shed some light
> > regarding this. I think it is some sort of combination in respect of
> > keen observation and its application with relation to intution. But
> > not clear. Kindly guide. With regards. Kulbir.
> >
> > On 6/3/09, Ashok singh <y2k_aksingh@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Dear Gurujan and friends,
> > >
> > > I am a new learner of lal kitab. For timing of event I guess to some extend
> > > we can find from lal kitab. here is the rule and please comment on it if I
> > > am wrong or if it can be improved.
> > >
> > > 1. Consider 35 Saal Desha, Average planet life and Planet Active during 1
> > > year of period.
> > >
> > > A- Consider Avg. Life of a planets.
> > > a) Planets in house no 2 starts from Life period minus avg period.i.e Ju 59
> > > to 75
> > > b) Planets in House no 9 starts from the Avg life of planets i.e Ju starts
> > > from 16 to 32 or Su
> > > from 22 to 44 etc.
> > > c) In all other houses it starts from starting from birth i.e. Ju from birth
> > > to 16 years.
> > > d) Consider all the other condition i.e Su with Ra Avg life of Su is zero or
> > > Moon with Ke is 11 years.
> > >
> > > B. 35 Years Dasha
> > > a) 35 Years Dasha should be consider and created.
> > >
> > > C. For every year Annual planet activte period should be consider.
> > > i.e Ju 32 days, Su 22 days etc
> > >
> > > After creating all the tables the real game starts:
> > >
> > > i.e Ju in House No. 1 and Sun,Moon or Mars in House No. 1,2,4
> > > Result: Earning from royal court will be extremely high.
> > > Analysis:
> > > Now we will see what time periods this four planets are active
> > > simultaneously
> > > this way we can find not only the time of event but also the life time of
> > > event.
> > > (How long this result will stay)
> > >
> > > If you read the examples given in lal kitab it is also described there.
> > >
> > > If I am not clear please feel free to ask me or I am open to any question.
> > >
> > > WAITING FOR YOUR COMMENTS
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Ashok
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
> > > To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 5:47 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Respected Goel ji, can u share a little bit as to how u make pin point
> > > predictions for future events using lalkitab. I mean event, time of
> > > occurence. Rider is that the principle applied should be applicable to
> > > all or similar cases. It shouldn't be applicable to a single or Very
> > > Few cases. Plz take it in positive attitude. Looking forward to learn
> > > something from your goodself. Regards. Kulbir.
> > >
> > > On 6/2/09, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ yahoo. co.in> wrote:
> > >> Dear Gautam ji,
> > >> It looks you happen to meet a person who may not be knowing
> > >> abc of Lalkitab.
> > >> Regards,
> > >> G.K.GOEL
> > >> Ph: 09350311433
> > >> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
> > >> NEW DELHI-110 076
> > >> INDIA
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ____________ _________ _________ __
> > >> From: Gautam.Rampal <gautam.rampal@ gmail.com>
> > >> To: astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009 2:10:34 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [astrostudents] Upayagers or Astrologers ?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I usually practice KP system of astrology, I have been able to make many
> > >> successful predictions
> > >> both on horary and natal chart.
> > >>
> > >> This year in delhi a Nakshatra exhibition was held, out of curiousity i
> > >> went
> > >> to a stall which
> > >> was dedicated to lal kitab books, the author was present there.
> > >>
> > >> I too bought couple of books, i asked him how to make predictions using
> > >> lal
> > >> kitab he said that
> > >> predictions cannot be made from lal kitab, its main use is to neutralise
> > >> the
> > >> bad planetary effects.
> > >>
> > >> Gautam.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Sir, to check and verify the nature of planets corresponding to past
> > >> events and present/prevailing conditions like vaastu, physique, palm,
> > >> status of and with different relatives and to suggest remedies to the
> > >> native to enhance positive planatary influence and minimise negative
> > >> influence to take benefit of doubt is one thing. To predict future is
> > >> totally different aspect. Lalkitab places a certain degree of command
> > >> in native's hands which he may use either way. So how is it possible
> > >> to predict future with certainity. Also e.g. In case of Combined
> > >> destiny of father-son. Or like in some cases like the one discussed in
> > >> the last part of 1952 edition the birth of the son brought a windfall
> > >> gains in the father's life. How can u predict when the son is still
> > >> not born. Another e.g. is the case of copper mixed gold bangles which
> > >> were cut and resulted in misfortune.. Lalkitab in its introduction says
> > >> that the purpose of the book is to nullify hinderances in results
> > >> promised by stars and provide some sort of protective gear against
> > >> possible calamities. Only major events can be foretoled that too which
> > >> are of the capacity to be written with INK OF BLOOD. Lalkitab emphasis
> > >> that Astrology is the study of planatary TENDENCIES. when tendency is
> > >> not certain how can the predictions be pin point? Regards. Kulbir.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 6/2/09, Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl@ mail.dk> wrote:
> > >>> Dear Members,
> > >>>
> > >>> The discussion going on at the moment is very interesting to follow. The
> > >>> importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always very
> > >>> good, since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I have
> > >>> been able to notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out
> > >>> Upayas to people without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi.. This means
> > >>> these ignorant astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is
> > >>> correctly calculated or not.
> > >>>
> > >>> As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this have
> > >>> been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great
> > >>> astronomer/astrolog er Varaha Mihira wrote that a miscalculation of an
> > >>> astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin. Actually, I think
> > >>> this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately using
> > >>> wrong chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would never
> > >>> have given such a strong statement.
> > >>>
> > >>> My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an
> > >>> Ascendant-based kind of astrology without verifying whether or not the
> > >>> Ascendant is correct is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this goes
> > >>> on every day and it surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the
> > >>> charlatans belong to this category of astrologers. Anyway, there is not
> > >>> so much we can do about this problem, except to do our very best when
> > >>> we, who are supposed to be the good guys, do the horoscopes ourselves.
> > >>> But are we really doing our best, or are some of us perhaps getting a
> > >>> little lazy? This is actually a very important question. Since - after
> > >>> all - no astrologer, however big or famous, is any better than the last
> > >>> horoscope he did.
> > >>>
> > >>> There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have
> > >>> often among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some few
> > >>> western astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab
> > >>> astrologer, he will ask you a number of highly relevant questions about
> > >>> your life, which clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and he
> > >>> would even pin-point at certain events going on in certain years of the
> > >>> past. He may even say thing about the present situations, being
> > >>> precisely correct. But when it comes to the future, he either can or
> > >>> will not give any predictions at all, but rather gives a large number of
> > >>> Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad elements in the near future,
> > >>> normally without even telling what malefic event the remedy is supposed
> > >>> to guard against.
> > >>>
> > >>> No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab
> > >>> consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the
> > >>> Varshphal we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that
> > >>> year. This is in my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological
> > >>> advice. And we have a lot of relevant information like that to share
> > >>> with our clients. But given the knowledge about the past and present
> > >>> that we present to the client, isn't it only natural that he/she also
> > >>> expect something like that to be said about the future? And not only
> > >>> Upayas, however relevant they may be.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal
> > >>> Kitab astrologers. . If I am right then we need to ask ourselves some
> > >>> questions: Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no
> > >>> longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop
> > >>> Chand Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the
> > >>> future? (Except of course that predictions should be given with due
> > >>> caution and all the necessary ethical consideration, etc. etc.). Are we
> > >>> somehow forgetting what it means to be astrologers? Are we developing
> > >>> into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?
> > >>>
> > >>> Best regards,
> > >>> Finn Wandahl
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Sent from my mobile device
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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