Astrostudents-Group Discussions: Re: [astrostudents] Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology?

Dear Mr. Wandahl,
The knowledge given by sages is universal and belongs to humanity all
over the world . You have as much right as any Indian.
I FRANKLY DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA AS TO HOW THIS GREAT KNOWLEDGE
DAWNED IN THE HEART OF GREAT SAINT AND SAGE Pt. ROOPCHANDJI.But one thing
is very clear that:
1. He had penned all the five books in the local language prevalent in the area he was residing
2. He had used idiomatic language prevalent in that area even the slang's. These are not easily understood
   in the rest of the country
3. Remedial measure suggested in lalkitab were more suited in the country side of his residence
4.Though Pt. ROOPCHAND JI HAD NOT CLAIMED ITS AUTHORSHIP, BUT HIS WORKS ARE IN
    ORIGINAL AND INNOVATIVE FORMAT. He took almost 13 years to complete all the five volumes.
Now lets discuss the era of BPHS.after 5000 bc , there was comparatively cam period in India.
In the field of astrology lot of new techniques were being developed. As I have written in my previous mail
Panchang was devolved(weekdays, Lunar Tithis, Karna , Yogas'-sum of Moon's and Sun's longitude
on the basis of SIDEREAL SIGNS ,and 27 NAKSHATRAS based on Moon)
It will be pertinent to understand that even much after commencement of CHRISTIAN ERA ,it was not practically possible to pin point the location of V.E.Point in the ZODIAC. As such , the question of using Tropical signs did not arise.In the Era of Vahaha Mihira , both zodiacs' were almost coinciding , as such if some one says
Surya Siddhanta had adopted Tropical signs , this statement is of no value.
    Now lets come back to ERA of BPHS when it was being created AND DEVOLVED( around 2000BC) , the use of ascending point , 12 bhava , 12 signs and 27 Nakshatra and placement and movement of Nine planets in these bhavas and signs was being developed.A vast literature was created which observed and recorded the effects of planets movement in Nakshatras' BHAVAS AS WELL AS THEIR MUTUAL PLACEMENT . FOR THIS PURPOSE
THEY HAVE DEVISED VARIOUS CHAKRAS AND HOROSCOPES. All Bhirgu ,Nadi and Samhita litrature
is the creation of pre BPHS ERA. IT IS MY FEELING THAT THIS EXCELLENT KNOWLEDGE WAS DAWNED
IN THE HEART OF Pt.. ROOPCHAND JI, WHO had DISTRIBUTED IT TO ALL MANKIND IN THE FORM THAT THEY CAN BENEFIT FROM THIS GREAT SCIENCE.
BPHS AND JAIMINI'S UPDESH SUTRA ARE A STEP FORWARD IN THE DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELD OF
ASTROLOGY.But we must gain understanding of pre -BPHS ERA literature, AS CLEARLY INDICATED IN ITS CHAPTER 3.
SIMILARLY SUTRAS SAY IN ITS FIRST CHAPTER THAT GAIN MASTERY OVER HORA SHASTRA.
IT SHOLD NOW CLEAR THAT BHIRGU SUTRA ( MPST OF IT STILL KEPT SECRET BY PERSONS LIKE BHATT) ARUN SAMHITA ,LALKITAB ,BPHS , UPDESH SUTRA ARE PART AND PARCEL OF THE OVERALL ASTROLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT IN INDIA.
As regard some young astrologers from Kerla is not able to appreciate this view.But this is not the case with
more mature and older generation of astrologers from Kerala , some of them were my teachers.
Regards,

G.K.GOEL
Ph: 09350311433
Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
NEW DELHI-110 076
INDIA

From: Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl@gmail.com>
To: astrostudents@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 7 July, 2009 1:12:48 AM
Subject: [astrostudents] Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology?

Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla,

This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this
particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the
members of this group has been able to see both our arguments.

What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal
findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar
from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present
discussion, for obvious reasons.

I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking
your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and
respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic
will be futile, leading to nowhere.

However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely,
and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30
years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually
made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab.

Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a
little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt
that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of
Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this?

Best wishes,
Finn Wandahl

--- In astrostudents@ yahoogroups.. com, "lalkitabee" <lalkitabee@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Res Mr. Wandahl,
> Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the
history of astro-shastra, but the person like me do not depends on the
sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar
only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya
Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers
,so the book named "BHARTIYA JYOTISH" written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI,
PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of
this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500
years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get
references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that
book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH
BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website "Brahman is real,
> the Universe is unreal,
> Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u
might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old)
> I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us
nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this
country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy
please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our
sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We
cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even
they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas.
> We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per
ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile
with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji
& Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one
of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by
some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also
established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology
shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I &
many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that
no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their
verdicts.
> With Regards
> Pt.Lalkitabee
> V.Shukla
> --- In astrostudents@ yahoogroups.. com, "Finn Wandahl" finn.wandahl@
wrote:
> >
> > Dear Mr. V. Shukla,
> >
> > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology,
and
> > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between
> > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of
> > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the
> > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology.
> >
> > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some
Vedic
> > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the
author
> > of that text.
> >
> > Even though many people believe a text like
Brihat-Parasara- Hora-Shastra
> > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the
> > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc.
indicate it
> > to be hardly more than some 500 years old.
> >
> > The Persian astronomer/astrolog er Al Biruni was a great
sanskrit-scholar
> > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he
has
> > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time,
there
> > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he
did
> > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all
the
> > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned
it.
> >
> > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of
disconnected
> > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and
written
> > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts
> > over a period of around 100 years.
> >
> > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of
> > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been
changed
> > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a
conversation
> > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many
> > textual similarities between the two works.
> >
> > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be
full
> > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of
> > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is
was
> > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by
the
> > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago..
> >
> > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu
> > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I
however
> > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not
become
> > to "religious" about these things.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Finn Wandahl
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com, lalkitabee <lalkitabee@ >
wrote:
> > >
> > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji
> > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the
spirituality
> > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab
is
> > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9
> > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN "BAND MUTTHI", THE HIDDEN
TREASURE
> > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH
LIYAA,
> > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from
> > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory
> > part of the system to understand the VEDAS.. & what are VEDAS
,needn't to
> > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA.
> > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs
> > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as
wel
> > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that
spiritual
> > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian
> > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each
> > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to
achieve
> > CHATURVARG-PHAL- PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So
all
> > of our knowledge base is to get rid from "LAKH-CHAURASI" & in this
> > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to
study
> > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian
ethos
> > which is basically spiritual in character.
> > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini
astrology.I
> > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR,
> > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor
> > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr.. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such
> > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture,
It is
> > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual.
> > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de
rahey
> > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye
bola
> > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi
nahi
> > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko
liya
> > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis
kitab
> > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya
hai,
> > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik
pehloo
> > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa.
> > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho "RASHI 12
MAIN
> > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI" is se badaa saboot aur kyaa
hogaa
> > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz
hai
> > aapse.
> > > With Regards
> > > Pt.Lalkitabee
> > > V.Shukla
> > >
> >
>