Astrostudents-Group Discussions: [astrostudents] Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology?

Dear Mr. Gopal Goel,

Thank you, and keep up the good work.

Best wishes,
Finn Wandahl

--- In astrostudents@yahoogroups.com, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Wandahl,
> The knowledge given by sages is universal and belongs to humanity all
> over the world . You have as much right as any Indian.
> I FRANKLY DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA AS TO HOW THIS GREAT KNOWLEDGE
> DAWNED IN THE HEART OF GREAT SAINT AND SAGE Pt. ROOPCHANDJI.But one thing
> is very clear that:
> 1. He had penned all the five books in the local language prevalent in the area he was residing
> 2. He had used idiomatic language prevalent in that area even the slang's. These are not easily understood
> in the rest of the country
> 3. Remedial measure suggested in lalkitab were more suited in the country side of his residence
> 4.Though Pt. ROOPCHAND JI HAD NOT CLAIMED ITS AUTHORSHIP, BUT HIS WORKS ARE IN
> ORIGINAL AND INNOVATIVE FORMAT. He took almost 13 years to complete all the five volumes.
> Now lets discuss the era of BPHS.after 5000 bc , there was comparatively cam period in India.
> In the field of astrology lot of new techniques were being developed. As I have written in my previous mail
> Panchang was devolved(weekdays, Lunar Tithis, Karna , Yogas'-sum of Moon's and Sun's longitude
> on the basis of SIDEREAL SIGNS ,and 27 NAKSHATRAS based on Moon)
> It will be pertinent to understand that even much after commencement of CHRISTIAN ERA ,it was not practically possible to pin point the location of V.E.Point in the ZODIAC. As such , the question of using Tropical signs did not arise.In the Era of Vahaha Mihira , both zodiacs' were almost coinciding , as such if some one says
> Surya Siddhanta had adopted Tropical signs , this statement is of no value.
> Now lets come back to ERA of BPHS when it was being created AND DEVOLVED( around 2000BC) , the use of ascending point , 12 bhava , 12 signs and 27 Nakshatra and placement and movement of Nine planets in these bhavas and signs was being developed.A vast literature was created which observed and recorded the effects of planets movement in Nakshatras' BHAVAS AS WELL AS THEIR MUTUAL PLACEMENT . FOR THIS PURPOSE
> THEY HAVE DEVISED VARIOUS CHAKRAS AND HOROSCOPES. All Bhirgu ,Nadi and Samhita litrature
> is the creation of pre BPHS ERA. IT IS MY FEELING THAT THIS EXCELLENT KNOWLEDGE WAS DAWNED
> IN THE HEART OF Pt.. ROOPCHAND JI, WHO had DISTRIBUTED IT TO ALL MANKIND IN THE FORM THAT THEY CAN BENEFIT FROM THIS GREAT SCIENCE.
> BPHS AND JAIMINI'S UPDESH SUTRA ARE A STEP FORWARD IN THE DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELD OF
> ASTROLOGY.But we must gain understanding of pre -BPHS ERA literature, AS CLEARLY INDICATED IN ITS CHAPTER 3.
> SIMILARLY SUTRAS SAY IN ITS FIRST CHAPTER THAT GAIN MASTERY OVER HORA SHASTRA.
> IT SHOLD NOW CLEAR THAT BHIRGU SUTRA ( MPST OF IT STILL KEPT SECRET BY PERSONS LIKE BHATT) ARUN SAMHITA ,LALKITAB ,BPHS , UPDESH SUTRA ARE PART AND PARCEL OF THE OVERALL ASTROLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT ININDIA.
> As regard some young astrologers from Kerla is not able to appreciate this view..But this is not the case with
> more mature and older generation of astrologers from Kerala , some of them were my teachers.
> Regards,
>
>
>
> G.K.GOEL
> Ph: 09350311433
> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
> NEW DELHI-110 076
> INDIA
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl@...>
> To: astrostudents@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 July, 2009 1:12:48 AM
> Subject: [astrostudents] Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology?
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla,
>
> This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this
> particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the
> members of this group has been able to see both our arguments.
>
> What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal
> findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar
> from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present
> discussion, for obvious reasons.
>
> I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking
> your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and
> respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic
> will be futile, leading to nowhere.
>
> However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely,
> and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30
> years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually
> made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab.
>
> Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a
> little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt
> that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of
> Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this?
>
> Best wishes,
> Finn Wandahl
>
> --- In astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com, "lalkitabee" <lalkitabee@ ...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Res Mr. Wandahl,
> > Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the
> history of astro-shastra, but the person like me do not depends on the
> sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar
> only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya
> Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers
> ,so the book named "BHARTIYA JYOTISH" written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI,
> PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of
> this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500
> years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get
> references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that
> book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH
> BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website "Brahman is real,
> > the Universe is unreal,
> > Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u
> might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old)
> > I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us
> nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this
> country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy
> please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our
> sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We
> cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even
> they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas.
> > We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per
> ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile
> with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji
> & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it..No-one
> of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by
> some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also
> established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology
> shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I &
> many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that
> no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their
> verdicts.
> > With Regards
> > Pt.Lalkitabee
> > V.Shukla
> > --- In astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com, "Finn Wandahl" finn.wandahl@
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Mr. V.. Shukla,
> > >
> > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology,
> and
> > > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between
> > > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of
> > > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the
> > > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology.
> > >
> > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some
> Vedic
> > > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the
> author
> > > of that text.
> > >
> > > Even though many people believe a text like
> Brihat-Parasara- Hora-Shastra
> > > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the
> > > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc.
> indicate it
> > > to be hardly more than some 500 years old.
> > >
> > > The Persian astronomer/astrolog er Al Biruni was a great
> sanskrit-scholar
> > > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he
> has
> > > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time,
> there
> > > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he
> did
> > > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all
> the
> > > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned
> it.
> > >
> > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of
> disconnected
> > > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and
> written
> > > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts
> > > over a period of around 100 years.
> > >
> > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of
> > > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been
> changed
> > > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a
> conversation
> > > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many
> > > textual similarities between the two works.
> > >
> > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be
> full
> > > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of
> > > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is
> was
> > > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by
> the
> > > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago.
> > >
> > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu
> > > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I
> however
> > > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not
> become
> > > to "religious" about these things.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Finn Wandahl
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In astrostudents@ yahoogroups. com, lalkitabee <lalkitabee@ >
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji
> > > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the
> spirituality
> > > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab
> is
> > > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9
> > > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN "BAND MUTTHI", THE HIDDEN
> TREASURE
> > > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH
> LIYAA,
> > > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from
> > > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory
> > > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS
> ,needn't to
> > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA.
> > > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs
> > > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as
> wel
> > > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that
> spiritual
> > > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian
> > > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each
> > > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to
> achieve
> > > CHATURVARG-PHAL- PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So
> all
> > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from "LAKH-CHAURASI" & in this
> > > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to
> study
> > > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian
> ethos
> > > which is basically spiritual in character.
> > > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini
> astrology.I
> > > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR,
> > > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor
> > > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such
> > > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture,
> It is
> > > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual..
> > > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de
> rahey
> > > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye
> bola
> > > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi
> nahi
> > > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko
> liya
> > > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis
> kitab
> > > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya
> hai,
> > > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik
> pehloo
> > > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa.
> > > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho "RASHI 12
> MAIN
> > > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI" is se badaa saboot aur kyaa
> hogaa
> > > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz
> hai
> > > aapse.
> > > > With Regards
> > > > Pt.Lalkitabee
> > > > V.Shukla
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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