Respected Varun ji,
The first Bhava will come to exist only when the concept of lagna will be there. This is basic principle.
What i am saying when we take lagna, 'Rasi' i.e. sign will come into existence, without which there is no Lagna.
Now LK has just pointed that forget the Lagna and consider the Lagna FOR first house. This is NOT just a difference of nomenclature only. Entire outlook is changed. Methodology is changed.
In LK, Rasi is limited for the planetary lordships only, just in corollary to kalpurush kundli.
The nature, qualities of Rasi is entirely discarded in LK.
Could from a LK chart, Lagna can be derived.?
If not, it simply means Lagna is dropped in LK Charts.
It takes the help of traditional chart to erect LK Chart, after conversion, traditional charts have no value in LK.
These are my views, still i am exploring to understand its basic theme, which are more similar to those concepts used in Nadi astrology where lagna are not used or given very less importance.
Parashara astrology is not much of help in LK.
Thankyou Regards,
Vijay Goel
vedic astrologer
Jaipur
--- In lalkitab_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Varun" <varun_trvd@...> wrote:
>
>
> Respected Vijay ji,
>
> It may not be entirely correct to say that Lal Kitab has dropped the
> concept of Lagna.
>
> Lagna or ascendant is the longitude of the Rasi rising on the horizon at
> the time of birth or epoch. No horoscope can be cast without calculating
> this Rasi longitude.
>
> Since the Lal Kitab does use a horoscope, it has to accept and take into
> account the Lagna. Lal Kitab can not ignore or drop the concept of Lagna
> or ascendant.
>
> Even otherwise the LK accepts the importance and the significance of the
> first house when it says:
>
> Ghar pehla hai takht hajari, grah phal raja kundli ka
>
> Had the LK dropped the concept of Lagna, it would not have said:
>
> Lagna baithaa grah takht nasheeni, raajshahi tab karta ho
>
> Therefore, all one might say is that the LK calls the Lagna as khana #
> 1.
>
> This is just a difference of nomenclature.
>
> With respect and regards,
>
> Varun Trivedi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In lalkitab_discussion@yahoogroups.com, "vijay.goel" goyalvj@
> wrote:
> >
> > Respected Goel Sahab,
> >
> > Pranam.
> >
> > There is no concept of Lagna in LK , this is very sure.
> >
> > //As an example , in one case 5degrees of Virgo is rising ,and in
> > another case 25 degree of Virgo is rising.What are going to be
> > boundaries of houses in both cases.//
> >
> > It your goodselve has said that basic Chart from vedic principle is
> > taken and since LK comes from Northern part so Parashari Method of
> > erection Bhava chart is considered by Pandit ji in LK as per mine
> > thinking. (This brahmin family has roots in Sikar rajasthan, and we
> have
> > Parashara ashram here in Rajasthan )
> >
> > So in your example both chart will be same.
> > even same charts can be more erected as moons stays for 72 hrs in the
> > same rasi in different dates.
> >
> > But we know that all will not have same destiny so panditji advised to
> > used face and palm prints and design of house to evaluated the effects
> > of planets on the native simultaneously.
> >
> > So before going for any remedies of LK , kundli drusti should be done
> by
> > asking question and matching with the events.
> >
> > Since LK is not restricted to the vedic chart alone, we can move the
> > planets to adsendent houses as per the effect seen on the native.
> >
> > 'LK system' is made to observe the coherent relationship with palm.
> >
> > It is just making chart from palm at broad level.
> >
> > I hope i am able to convey my message.
> >
> > Thankyou
> > Regards,
> > Vijay Goel.
--- In astrostudents@yahoogroups.com, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Vijay Goel Ji,
> Pt. Roop Chand Ji was used to distribute lallkitab
> to persons who had basic knowledge of astrology.
> In lalkitab ,no where it is mentioned that as to how to find out
> ascending point.LK is also silent on the definition of bhava.
> As an example , in one case 5degrees of Virgo is rising ,and in another case
> 25 degree of Virgo is rising.What are going to be boundaries of houses
> in both cases. There are two alternatives :
> 1. In sign chart , VIRGO REPLACED BY 1ST HOUSE . iN THAT CASE
> BOTH NATIVES WILL HAVE SAME CHARTS AND THEN SAME DESTINY.
> 2 IN SECOND ALTERNATIVE , BHAVA WILL EXTENT 15 DEGREES ON
> EITHER SIDE OF RISING DEGREE.IN THAT CASE BOTH NATIVES MAY HAVE
> DIFFERENT BHAVA CHARTS.
> (I HAVE ASSUMED BOTH NATIVES ON SAME DATES)
> 3. WHAT METHODOLOGY WILL BE ADOPTED IN SUCH CASES.
> 4
>
> ना २८ नकà¥à¤·à¤¤à¥à¤°à¥‹, न पंचांग गिनती, à¤à¥à¤²à¤¾ राशि १२ को वह देती है.
> सिरà¥à¤« पकà¥à¤•à¥‡ घर १२ आखिर लेती, गà¥à¤°à¤¹ ९ से किसà¥à¤®à¤¤ बता देती है.
> LALLKITAB SAYS FORGET SIGN ETC BUT IT DOES NOT SAY IGNORE THEM.
> IF PLANET IS LORD OF 10H IIN TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY , BUT PLACED
> IN ADVERSE PLACEMENT AS PER LK , IF WE REMOVE IT BY THROWING ITS ITEMS IN
> FLOWING WATER , THE PROFESSION WILL SUFFER. WE , IN SUCH ,CASES HAVE TO FIND
> SOME OTHER UPAYA TO REMOVE ITS ILL EFFECTS.
>
> pandit ji , therefore , very careful in the choice of words.LK draws its basic
> inspiration from Vedic astrology.Nakshatras and zodiac signs are defined
> mathematically.
> In Kalpursha Kundli 1st house is always commences from sign Aries.
> Ownership of signs , exaltation and debilitation signs are as per traditional
> norms. Same is applicable to Pacca ghar (bhava karka)with slight variation.
> In Bhirgu astrology , there are some powerful ygas on same basis.These
> yogas are very effective.
> Mr. Goel kindly aprise me with your views.
>
>
> G.K.GOEL
> Ph: 09350311433
> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR
> NEW DELHI-110 076
> INDIA
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: vijay.goel goyalvj@...
> To: astrostudents@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, 22 February, 2011 4:05:16 PM
> Subject: [astrostudents] LK has dropped the concept of Lagna (Ascendent).
>
>
> Dear Members,
>
> In Lal kitab 1942, Farman 2, page 1:
>
>
> ना २८ नकà¥à¤·à¤¤à¥à¤°à¥‹, न पंचांग गिनती, à¤à¥à¤²à¤¾ राशि १२ को वह देती है.
> सिरà¥à¤« पकà¥à¤•à¥‡ घर १२ आखिर लेती, गà¥à¤°à¤¹ ९ से किसà¥à¤®à¤¤ बता देती है.
>
> It is clearly mentioned in Lal- Kitab that it does not consider 28 nakshatras ,
> nor Panchang ( Vaar, Tithi, Yoga, Karan, Nakshatra are five panchang values),
> also it does not consider that concept of 12 signs, i.e. concept of Rising
> Lagna Sign (12 different signs in 24hrs.)
> It only consider 12 fix houses (Bhava or Ghar or Khanna number), and 9 planets
> for fortune prediction.
>
> घर पहला है तख़à¥à¤¤ हजारी, गà¥à¤°à¤¹ फल राजा कà¥à¤‚डली का,जà¥à¤¯à¥‹à¤¤à¤¿à¤· में इसे लगà¥à¤¨ à¤à¥€ कहते, à¤à¤—डा
> मनà¥à¤·à¥à¤¯ है माया का. [LK 1942, pakka ghar khanna no. 1]
>
>
> Ghar pehla hai takht hajari, grah phal raja kundli ka .
> Jyotish mein ise lagan bhi kehate, jhagra manushya hai maya ka.
>
> Here it is very clear that LK is saying that House number 1 is known as Lagna
> (ascendent) in Traditional astrology. It means in LK it is know as Khanna no 1.
>
> Method to erect LK Kundli :
> लगन à¤à¤• का हिंदसा लेकर जो चलती, खतम १२ पर ही वह कर देती है.[farmaan 2]
>
> --------
>
> लगन पहला हिंदसा गिन कर, १२ के बनवा गया,
> जनम राशि घर में पहले, लगन से मितवा गया . [From Gujaris heading 1942]
>
> The Ascendent of the traditional chart is turned into LK Kundli by removing the
> sign number and putting up the Fix house number starting from I to XII. Here
> any rising lagna sign is represented Khana number 1 \ house number 1 and is
> increased in ascending order. Planets are put in the same house as in
> traditional chart.
> -----------------
>
> Misconception for LK:
>
>
>
> 1) LK horoscopes start from Mesh Lagna (Aries ascendent) ?
> 2)Are all persons born in Mesh Lagna ?
> Reality : It simple means that allLK horoscopes starts from First House or Khana
> Number I, which is also equivalent to Mesh Rasi (Aries sign). There is no such
> concept like ascendent or Lagna.
>
>
> 3) Concept of Trikone, kendra is important and should be used for remedies as
> per LK ?
> Reality : Their is no similar concept of Kendra and trikone as taught in Laghu
> Parashari, there is no concept of functional malefic and benefic as mentioned
> in Laghu Parasahari for each Lagna.
>
> -----------------
>
> In LK, House (khanna number) & Planets are important.
> In the chapter Graha & Rasi in LK-1942 page 48-50. : All the basic relationship
> between planets and house are clearly mentions. Nowhere Lagna is mentioned, nor
> any such type of concept is used.
> Each House (Khanna number) is designated with :
> 1)Rasi ka Malik graha : planet which is owner of sign.
> 2)Ucch graha : Planet which are exalted in Khana number.
> 3)Neech graha : Planet which are debilitated in Khana number.
> 4)Pakka Ghar : Planet which are pakka in khana number.
> 5)Kismat jagane wala Grah : Planet which activate the fortune of the Khana
> number.
> 6)Graha Phal Ka : Planet which is not remedial for the Khana number.
> 7)Rasi Phal Ka : Planet which is remedial for the Kahan Number.
>
> We can clearly see that in House - Planet relationship : Above Seven different
> types of relationship is considered in LK.
>
> It should be noted that
> 1) Meaning Uccha \ Neecha is not exactly same as in traditional astrology. In
> traditional astrology strength is considered with Uccha \ Neecha, which is not
> so in LK.
> 2) In LK , rasis are considered for lordship only. like Mangal (mars) is lord
> of Mesha (Aries) and Vrischika (scorpio). Not a other single attribute of sign
> like nature of mesh rasi, its qualities are taken, as considered in traditional
> astrology.
>
>
> ----------------
>
> I hope this will help a lot to understand LK.
>
> Best Wishes,
> Vijay Goel
> Vedic astrologer & Vastu consultant.
> http://lalkitab1952.blogspot.com/2011/02/lk-has-dropped-concept-of-lagna.html?spref=fb
>
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